What makes the case of Jennifer Pan unique among others in the true
crime genre is the over abundance of raw footage freely available in the public domain.
There is over 11 hours of material that not only recounts her entire
life in meticulous detail, but gives us considerable insight into her
psychopathological state.
Jennifer herself will narrate her own story in this video,
which is the reason the following leadup segment will be condensed.
As a brief outline is all that is needed before delving into the
extraordinary mind of this individual.
Jennifer was born in Markham, Ontario, where she was raised with
her older brother in a middle class household.
Her parents, Bich and Hann were originally from Vietnam,
and their method of parenting was strict.
Very strict. What some might even class as authoritarian.
Success and achievement from their children were seen as outright
obligations, whether it be in academics or extracurricular activity,
and some might argue these expectations took precedence over
the well being of the children themselves.
Jennifer initially took the imposed pressure in her stride and put
everything she had into figure skating.
She had exceptional talent, and at one point was expected to compete in
the Winter Olympics, but she suffered a serious knee injury at
the age of 14 and was told she could no longer compete.
Her dreams were cut short, but of more concern was that her parents
expectations now had to be met through the more traditional route
of education, and the issue was that Jennifer wasn't anywhere near as
academically gifted as she was athletic.
She was averaging a C minus when her parents wanted straight A's.
So rather than communicate with them, she decided to meet their
expectations under false pretences and began faking her test results.
This led to her faking her end of year report cards, which eventually
led to her faking a high school diploma, and then a university
acceptance letter to study pharmacology.
In the abstract world of her parents, Jennifer was on her way to
a noble and well paid career in medical healthcare, when in reality,
she was a high school dropout living with her drug dealer boyfriend whom
she had been dating in secret for almost eight years.
She was eventually found out in 2010, when her parents discovered
she had been living a double life and was then given an ultimatum.
At 24 years old, she had to choose between one of two options.
Option one was that she had to live at home under a strict regime,
cease all contact with her boyfriend and only leave the house to go back to school
and pursue an education.
Option two is that she could do whatever she wanted, but she would
then be disowned from her family, she could never return home and all
financial support would cease immediately.
Jennifer evidently decided neither option would suffice.
So she created option number three.
She had her boyfriend arrange a mock
home invasion, where three of his acquaintances would enter the Pan
household and stage a robbery gone wrong.
The two instructions were to first ransack the home and then murder the parents.
The plan date was Monday the eighth of November, with the scheduled time
being roughly 11 pm.
Jennifer would unlock the front door and three figures were caught on a
neighbour's surveillance camera entering the home at 11:05.
They were then seen running out just under 18 minutes later, it was at
that exact time 911 received a call from the same household.
"Help!"
"Where are you, ma'am?"
"Helen Avenue. We just got robbed, and I don't know where my parents are!"
"Ma'am, calm down. What's..."
"And some people broke into our house and they just stole all our money"
"Ma'am? Ma'am? Ma'am?"
"Okay. Ma'am, where are you?"
"What?" "Avenue!"
"Avenue Road?"
"Yes!" "Can you spell the street name for me, please?"
"Dad?! "Help!"
"I'm calling 911. I'm calling 911."
"Hello?!"
"Help!!"
"Hello?!" "Yes?"
"Ma'am, I need to know your address.
Avenue Road? Can you please just spell that for me?"
"Helen Avenue. My dad's just went outside screaming."
"Ma'am, can you spell the street address for me, please?"
"H E L E N."
"Someone broke in, and I heard shots, like pops, I don't know what's happening. Im tied upstairs..."
Bich Pan was shot twice, once in the neck and once in the head.
She was killed immediately. The father Hann was also shot twice,
once in the shoulder and once in the face.
He astonishingly survived and was put into an induced coma once he
arrived at the hospital.
Jennifer was taken to the same hospital as a precaution but was
soon cleared of injury.
She sat by her father's bedside for roughly three hours before she was
taken to the Markham Police Station to give a statement as a witness.
I want to go through a form with you.
It may seem kind of, you know why you're doing this, but this is a
it's... It's like you're, you're swearing to tell the truth about
what you're going to talk to me about.
And it's also going to explain to you the...
The penalties for not telling the truth.
I don't expect you not to help me, but...
For a homicide investigation, anyone who's very close to the
investigation, we do this with, okay?
So this isn't suspecting that you're not gonna tell the truth.
This is more of a feature that you understand the importance of telling
the complete truth.
Jennifer is not a suspect at this moment, she is only giving a
voluntary statement under oath.
She is not read her right to silence but instead informed of her rights
as a witness.
She is basically told that fabricating evidence with the intent
to mislead is an offence.
After reading the notification off paper, the detective gives Jennifer
a more human explanation of the instruction.
What I've just explained to you is...
You're here voluntarily to help us.
But you don't have to talk to us if you don't want to.
But the importance of talking to us and if you're talking to us the importance
of telling the truth.
And if you don't tell the truth, there's criminal consequences
for not telling the truth.
That's all that... all that stuff had to do with.
Okay. Okay?
The investigator then leads to get the commissioner of oaths.
Which is for the purpose of swearing in the witness.
But he first brings in a box of Kleenex.
This is universally recognised as "getting startled".
Yet the official term in neurophysiology is the startle
reflex via auditory stimulus.
Hyper arousal from a traumatic event can often exaggerate this response
in a manner similar to how Jennifer reacted to the sound of the door.
Hello, my name is Angela Spiro.
I'm a commissioner of oaths with the York Regional Police.
I'm here so you can give a truthful statement either by solemn
affirmation or swearing on the Bible.
Which do you prefer?
Swearing on the Bible...
Just put your hand on the Bible.
Do you, Jennifer Pan, swear that the evidence you shall give on this
investigation shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you, God?
I do.
Once Jennifer is sworn in, the lead investigator returns to collect the statement.
Now I want you to, sort of, take yourself back to earlier on today...
Yesterday, being the eighth of November.
And tell me about your day.
Okay, start at any point in time, wherever you feel comfortable.
And then we're going to move forward, okay?
Yesterday, probably around nine o'clock in the morning, 9:30.
My mother, she woke me up and she told me that she was going to visit
my grandfather.
Throughout the day, Jennifer explains that she practised piano,
studied piano history talked on the phone with her friends and had
dinner with her parents.
Her mother left for line dancing at 8 pm and returned home at about 9:30
at which time Jennifer was alone in her room watching TV,
ready to go to sleep.
And then suddenly, I just heard my Mom calling for my Dad to come down.
And that's when I lowered the volume on my TV.
And I could hear the voices weren't any voices I was very familiar with.
And so I was scared, and I couldn't move.
I just sat in my room for a while.
And then I thought I heard them all, like leave the top floor
and I peered out of my bedroom door.
And a guy was there, and he came at me and had string in his hands and
tied my arms back and said I have a gun behind your back.
Do what I say; if you do what I say then no one will get hurt.
Where is the money? Show me where your money is.
My mom kept trying to get up.
And they kept telling her to sit down.
And so I didn't want her to get hurt, so I told her, 'Mom, sit down.'
They were trying to find her wallet. But she... her English isn't good,
so she kept saying 'purse'.
They kept pushing her down onto the chair.
Okay.
Take your time. Take your time.
All this is very important. So take your time.
Jennifer's nonverbal communication up to this point has made sense and
the reflection of her mother's last moments seems to push her over the edge.
It could be assumed the detective still considers Jennifer a victim at this moment.
But in the next moment, he will start becoming suspicious.
He kept all the lights... off... on the main floor...
The only time there was light... was when they opened the fridge door...
to see if they could find where my mom's purse was.
Take yourself back to a moment in your life when you have been
overwhelmingly upset about something and at the same time were trying to
explain to someone why you were upset.
You wouldn't quietly and reservedly convey the events.
You would likely blurt them out in a forceful and disordered manner.
Your sole focus would be on processing your thoughts and
conveying them into speech.
The emotional turbulence of severe hysteria and grief makes it very
difficult to convey thought into actual dialogue and the simple
wording of a sentence becomes very challenging.
Jennifer seems to be more concentrated on how she's being
perceived, yet finds her words easily and executes her sentences perfectly.
One of the gentlemen asked my father if he had money in his wallet and
where his wallet was.
So they took me because I was next to the stairwell, they took me up the
stairs to show them where my father's wallet was, but, I didn't
know they had turned the room upside down.
I didn't know where his pants were at that time.
The intruders retrieve $1,100 from the master bedroom and then tie
Jennifer to the upstairs bannister.
Next thing I know, I think I heard my parents going down the stairs and
my mom was asking them for me to come with them.
They wouldn't let me come with them.
After this, the last things I've heard them say was...
You lied. You lied to us.
And then I heard two pops.
My mom screamed.
I yelled out for her.
And a couple more pops.
Take your time.
And I think I heard my mum say... or moan... or something, and then they did
one more before they left and then one of the guys said we have to
go now it's been too long.
And then they ran out the door.
And I think... once they were out the door... I heard my dad go up the
stairs and at that point...
Jennifer has clearly gotten her story straight beforehand, yet in
the next moment appears to realise how unusual it is that she was able
to make a phone call when her hands were tied behind her back to a bannister.
She hesitates, stutters and even looks to the detective for approval,
twice before she quickly moves on.
I had my phone in my po... in my...
on me, behind me.
That I had hidden there that they didn't know about.
So...
I had my phone in my po... in my...
on me, behind me.
That I had hidden there that they didn't know about.
So when I... when I thought I had heard them all leave
and my dad ran up the stairs,
I whipped out the phone, and I called 911.
But I still hadn't heard anything from my mom.
And all I could hear was my dad running on the street...
moaning and making sounds.
The detective then breaks the event down into components.
And has Jennifer go through each moment in more detail.
The first of which is the appearance of the intruders.
Jennifer now describes the one who appeared to be in charge.
The only thing I can remember was he had dreadlocks.
He had dreadlocks.
So can you describe his race to me?
He was black.
Did it... was his head covered? Was his face covered?
Do you remember anything about that?
Just that his dreadlocks were like... kind of like... flopping all over the place.
I couldn't really see his face and they kept the lights dark as much as...
as much as possible.
Did he have a gun? Yes.
Did you see the gun? I only saw the top part of the gun.
What did it look like? Kind of... it was black.
Yeah.
Do you know where the other guys involved in this are?
I know one stayed with my parents downstairs.
Okay.
The other one, I'm not...
At that point in time, I was more focused on him.
Like he was seeing me, and he was coming after me.
So you're saying there's three for sure? Yes.
That's all... you saw a total of three at one time, you saw three
people together?
Yes, when I went downstairs, I saw three shadows.
She details the appearances of the other two assailants whom she
asserts were also black males.
The detective then brings her back to the one in charge.
Now, the first guy who spoke to you... what kind of... did he have any accent?
Is it clear? None that I could make out.
Was it clear English? English.
Unbroken? Unbroken.
No accent?
From the terms he used, I didn't get to pick up an accent, no.
He used short phrases.
He sounded... he sounded Canadian?
I would say yes, he was born here.
He was born here.
She asserts that the second intruder didn't speak, while the third had a
Caribbean accent.
She then goes on to say she was taken downstairs for a brief moment
and saw her parents under guard in the living room.
Her father was asked where his wallet was, and he told them it was
in the master bedroom.
Jennifer was then taken back upstairs alone with two of the
assailants to help them find it.
They don't find the wallet but instead, retrieve a pile of cash from
inside the nightstand.
Jennifer was then tied to the upstairs bannister and left alone as
the intruders went back down.
And then, the next thing I can hear are them telling my parents to move to the basement.
Okay.
And I'm asking them why? Where are you going?
And my mums yelling to me.
I want my daughter. Why can't my daughter come too?
I want my daughter.
Jennifer then hears one of the intruders yell, "You lied to us".
Who do you hear yelling 'you lied to us' or to that extent?
Number three.
Number three? to my... I'm assuming it's to my father.
Because he was the one asking for the wallet.
Now you hear this commotion downstairs? You said you heard two pops.
And you heard who scream? My mom.
Your mom? And what was she screaming?
Do you remember? I couldn't make it out.
It was kind of like a cry... cry, yells it was just...
Okay.
They had made the first round or pop pop and...
They had... they had said, okay, that's enough.
Let's go.
Who said that? Whose voice is that?
Number one.
Okay.
And I heard one more after that.
And they're like, that's enough. Let's go.
Okay. And again, that's number one?
Yes.
So what do you hear next? After you hear the scrambling... they're gone.
Because you're hearing no more, I gather that's how you assume they're
gone is because you don't hear, and then you hear your dad.
I reach for my phone at that point,
Okay. And you call 911?
Okay.
When your father exits, you hear the door open?
Because you hear your door and then you...
And then I can hear like outside noises.
Okay.
Like the wind coming in, and I just hear my dad... I think...
You think that he's sustained some kind of injury because he's not...
you can't understand what he's saying?
Okay, what about... do you... do you...
Can you hear your mom?
Okay.
Where does your dad go? Do you know where... you never see your dad again
until when we're at the hospital?
I think that's what you said, right?
I saw him when he was on the gurney.
Is there any reason to suspect or anything that's happened in the
recent weeks leading up that would have you guys be a target of some
type of incident like this?
We live a straightforward, kind of almost routine life.
Whenever Jennifer smiles, it takes her a couple seconds to realise
she's not exhibiting the correct behaviour, and she then snaps back
into her solemn stare.
The two loops are so diametrically opposed to each other that it
becomes glaringly obvious she's forcing one of the emotions.
What in your opinion would cause people to target your house to think
there was a large quantity of money?
I'm not sure.
Now, you say your Mom drives a Lexus?
It could be because of the aesthetics, yes.
What about your Dad?
He drives a Mercedes and he loves that baby.
Is that right?
The questions end here and the detective leaves the room for half
an hour to double-check if he needs any more information.
After 15 minutes of Jennifer waiting alone, we're gifted with another
performance of the startle reflex, only this time, it's slightly less convincing.
If investigators were certain of Jennifer's innocence, this would
have been the first and last time she would have been questioned in
such a manner.
Police are extremely careful in how they involve victims
in investigations as to not cause further unnecessary trauma.
But on this particular occasion, it would come as no surprise that
Jennifer's psychological well being was of less concern.
She was officially still a victim and witness but unofficially a
leading suspect.
She was called back in to give another statement just two days later at 9 am.
She was told the reason was to collect more details,
but you'll notice that the line of questioning and the answers they attain have
little to no use for anything outside of Jennifer's culpability.
The actual reason for the second statement is to collect further
information to use against her at a later stage.
In this interview alone, they already start the process of cross-examination
and start to catch her out in previous lies.
Jennifer is still a witness at this moment.
And the exchange is void of any direct confrontation,
yet she is still put under a modest amount of pressure
and the holes in her story start to become evermore apparent.
Take that first interview that we had... which was, you know, hours after
what what had transpired.
Put it aside.
It's almost like we've never spoken before. Okay, so we're starting afresh.
We're starting from new.
That way, you're not going to say 'I think I already told him that.'
Don't worry about what you've already told me.
Do you, Jennifer Pann, swear declare that the evidence that you give in
this investigation shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth so help you, God? Yes.
We're going to see if we've learned or if you've remembered anything else.
And there's some questions with respect to that statement that I'm
going to ask you about.
Okay, but I'm gonna let you start again, and let's, let's move forward
from any time in that day where you want to start.
If it's a time you woke up or if it's the time that your first interation.
It's your choice.
I'm just... I'm very nervous and I...
Why are you... let's... Why are you... why are you nervous?
Tell me about why you're nervous.
Because I don't want to say the wrong thing.
Oh, so
Because that day was... a lot.
You're right.
And I've been... scattered, and some bits and pieces are here and some
pieces aren't here and... I'm just...
So, I want you to sit back in your chair.
Okay, just sit back in your chair.
Take a deep breath, okay?
Close your eyes... Just follow my line...
Just sit back in the chair for a second... sit back, relax, the best you can.
Close your eyes...
and just breathe for a minute.
Okay?
The most curious detail you've probably come to notice is this.
It's known as a "self-pacifying gesture".
A person who does this is
most often uncomfortable and sometimes fearful of what lies ahead.
It's a coping mechanism to dissipate stress and afford self-assurance.
What I can remember is... when I woke up... I had some breakfast.
She practices on the piano, studies piano history plays games on her phone
and speaks with her friends on Facebook during the morning hours.
Her mom leaves to visit her grandfather at around noon and
returns at 3 pm to prepare dinner.
Her father comes home at around 4:30 from work and dinner is served one hour later.
Her mother leaves for line dancing at seven, then returns at 9:30.
Jennifer, at this point, is in bed, talking with her friend on the phone
and her father is in the computer room.
She then hears her mother loudly call out to her father.
What is she saying?
She's calling him by his name and to come down.
Okay, does, so give us verbatim. What do you hear her saying?
[Speaks foreign language]
She's clearly aware that she has to appear mournful over the subject
matter and sensibly draws out this emotion at the correct moments.
Yet what's fascinating is how she's unable to maintain this emotion when
inquired over the same elements.
In this very moment, she appears completely grief-stricken.
But when the investigator inquires further, this supposed grief rapidly dissipates.
It's extremely difficult to convincingly act out an emotion
while evaluating a question.
It requires two completely different parts of the brain, which is why
most people can only do one of these things at a time.
This is exactly what you see in the next moment and continuously
throughout this interview.
What does that translate to?
It's my father's name, Hann, come down here.
Does she say anything else associated with that? With that...
I can't hear clearly because, like I was on the phone and the TV was on
but that's what I heard.
Is she yelling? Or is it...
It's a loud... it's... she's not yelling, but it's a loud tone.
Okay.
She then hangs up the phone with her friend, once she hears the commotion.
As I'm hanging up the phone with him I hear footsteps going up the stairs.
Okay.
But they're not... they're heavier footsteps than what is to be
expected from my parents.
Okay.
Jennifer hears unfamiliar voices, so she opens her door to investigate.
She has spoken for two minutes up to this point without being interrupted
and once again manages to build-up her emotion to correlate with a
supposedly terrifying event.
Yet as soon as the detective interjects with a question we once
again see this emotion dissipate.
I peered out, and there was... A person... in the like, what would have
been my brother's room.
And where is your brother's room located?
Just a little bit down that... like I could see my...
from my doorway to his doorway, just a little bit down the hall.
Okay.
The first intruder then rob's Jennifer at gunpoint before taking
her to the ground floor where she then sees her parents sitting next
to each other.
From where I was standing, my father was sitting on the right.
And my mother was on the left.
Sitting where?
On a couch. On our couch.
Sitting on the couch, are they looking out towards you?
No, their backs are towards me.
Okay. And you're now on the ground level.
Are you on the floor? Or sitting on the stairs?
I'm sitting on the floor.
Alright, where are your hands?
They had tied my hands.
So let's go... let's go back up to the stairs.
Do you remember we said...
Her emotional display and seeing her parents in distress gradually faded
after each interjection.
But you'll now see it completely cease altogether once she realises
that she made her first mistake.
Everything she had said up to this point correlated with her initial statement,
but she had just forgot to mention that she was first tied up
before being taken downstairs and only brought it up when reminded
by the detective.
Take the other statement and whatever we said before...
No, I said it earlier.
She didn't say she was tied up earlier, she completely forgot to
mention it and seems to be trying to convince the detective otherwise.
It's a moment of slight panic, which becomes far more pronounced when you
compare it to her supposed grief stricken recollection five seconds earlier.
The detective doesn't challenge this, as it can be used against her
at a much later stage and the main objective at this point is to
collect as much conflicting information as possible.
Okay then we must... let's... let's get back to that area.
I think you might have touched on it we went back into description.
So where does he...
Where do you get your hands tied and where does the string come from?
I'm not sure where the string comes from.
But he had the string.
Okay.
And he... after I gave him my money, that's when he tied my hands.
She is then taken downstairs where she sees her mother being
interrogated by the second assailant over the whereabouts of the cash.
According to her first statement, the second assailant never said a
word the entire time.
He had pushed her back onto the couch, and she...
Who pushed her?
Number two.
Okay.
He was pushing her back onto the couch.
And she... she kept saying,
"Where's my purse? Where's my purse?"
And the guy kept telling her to sit down
and I didn't want my mommy to get hurt.
How many times does she get up and get pushed back down?
I'd say she got up... twice.
Has number two uttered a word at this point in time?
I can't remember hearing him.
Okay. So we're just correcting what you said earlier because you said
earlier that it was number two who's was asking where the purse is,
where the purse is, and now you've said now it's number one guy who would
I'm sorry. initially...
No, no, no, it's all a purpose... The purpose here is clarifying what you're saying.
So number one is... I just don't want to...
number one is... the one who's doing the talking about the purse.
Number three is focused on your dad's wallet.
Okay.
Jennifer continues to make contradictions and is forced to
correct herself multiple times after she notices the puzzled gaze from
the detective.
He inquires over the appearance of assailant number two, who is wearing
a hoodie, according to the first statement.
You get a good look at number two now of what he is wearing?
All I could tell was he had a vest and his face was like a long, oval face.
He had a vest?
No, a hoodie.
Okay.
A dark hoodie.
Okay. Did you see them recover anything inside your mom and dad's room?
I did not see anything, no.
Are you sure? Because, when we spoke the last time, there was some
mention of some other money that went missing.
I believe when they were looking for my father's wallet, they had opened the drawer.
And there was... It was in an envelope.
What drawer would that have been in?
On my... On the... You're in...
At the door, we were all standing on the left side... bedside table.
Who's side of the bed is it?
That's my mother's side of the bed.
Okay.
More than likely a total coincidence, yet she almost appears to be praying
that she gave the correct response.
Fortunately for her, she was correct on this occasion.
And approximately how much money?
I'm not sure how much he took out for our... our trip.
But I can... I can only... estimate about a few hundred dollars.
A few hundred, because at the time, the last time you told me you were
pretty adamant...
$1,100. $1,100, so I'm curious to know
how you came up with that number.
I believe it was when we were at the border, and we stopped at the duty-free
my mother was deciding whether to use her US currency or her...
Her US currency or her Canadian currency.
So it was at that time you remember hearing $1100, and that's what is
that the inference you're saying?
Is that... Because you're pretty solid, saying that it was $1,100 that
went missing... that was taken.
And that you saw it... when we spoke.
And who took it... who took possession of the money.
I'm sorry.
It's alright.
The detective lets the contradictions slide once more.
Jennifer is then brought to the moment where the intruders had just
left, and she is tied to the upstairs bannister.
Let's come back to now, you're being taken to the bannister in the other...
I'm sorry, I don't remember. Don't apologise, okay.
I'm going to try and ask you questions to try and clarify points.
Okay?
If you don't remember, you don't remember.
Okay, so don't, there's no apologising.
The only reason you would apologise to me is if you've lied to me.
No.
Okay, so, then in this case, then don't apologise to me, it's okay.
Okay, I'm gonna ask you questions to clarify points.
You're now bound to this... to the railing.
Can you show me... can you stand up and turn around and tell me just
show on the camera, how your hands are bound.
And how you are against the railing you don't have to sit down I just
need to see how you were.
Can I just tell you?
The only reason that I'm trying to, I need to do this, is that I'm also
going to ask you is that it.
So take this back to... from... take it out of a traumatising event,
which it is and put yourself into a more clinical position because I
want to see how you could physically get your phone out of your waistband.
We're obviously going to need to know that, it's very important.
So, traumatise away now... put yourself into a... just a state of...
I need to mechanically show how I can get access to my phone.
Okay, because that's obviously very relevant.
We know you made the phone call.
But questions are going to obviously raise, is that if my hands are
bound, and I'm against the railing, how do I talk to a 911 operator?
Okay?
So clinically, this is now a clinical demonstration. Just stand
Just stand up, focus in on how you did it.
And I want you to stick that in your waistband as an example, okay?
So take your... just take your sweater off because this will be a very
smooth, very quick thing, it's a one time demonstration.
I'm not gonna ask you to repeat it.
The two critical parts of this demonstration are when Jennifer states
she was tied, and the movement of her arms as she takes her phone out of her pocket.
The investigator is hoping the mechanics of the two components
would be illogical and contradict each other.
He tied my upper arm.
Yes.
Around the bannister.
Yes.
But my hands are bound together.
So your hands are bound together, and this is the arm that's...
The strings wrapped around against the bannister?
Okay, so now how can you get to the phone?
And how do you make the phone call?
Whether it be a stroke of luck, or that Jennifer had prepared for this moment,
this actually made sense.
Had her arms gone left, or the point of restraint been below the elbow,
none of this would have been possible.
It's perhaps the single moment where Jennifer statement was somewhat
beneficial to her defence.
We know Jennifer was tied up when police arrived, but the assumption
was that she had her phone in her hands the entire time and wouldn't
have had to retrieve it from her waistband.
She can now argue that this portion of her testimony is genuine.
911. And do you talk down like that?
Yes, I'm yelling at the phone like this.
And how can you hear?
I turned the volume on max.
Yes. So that's exactly the way that you're talking to her against the railing?
Okay, that's good enough. Sit down.
Jennifer is then brought back to the moment just before she heard the gunshots.
At this point, I start hearing my parents get up... and they're moving...
and my mom's yelling,
'Where's my daughter, I want my daughter, where's my daughter!?'
And I'm yelling at her, 'Mom, I'm here!'
Here, Jennifer take a Kleenex... and just... take a minute.
You'll notice that she doesn't wipe her eyes or blow her nose,
just buries her face in the tissue, which the detective later testified
remained completely dry.
Okay.
So we're now down in the basement, they're down in the...
you know your parents are down in the basement.
I heard pop.
And then my mom...
I heard her squeal...
Multiple pops occur thereafter before she hears the intruders, leave
through the front door.
Once the door closed, I heard my father.
He ran up the stairs, and all I could hear it was moaning.
Yeah.
Once I heard him starting to move, that's when I pulled out the phone and tried to call 911.
This is untrue.
She only realised her father was alive midway through the 911 call
and in that exact moment, you can actually, hear genuine fear in her
voice compared to her fabricated panic the moment before.
"Some people broke into our house and they jsut stole all our money..."
"And I could hear my parents yelling downstairs. Please send help!"
"Where are you? What..." "Avenue."
"Avenue Road?" "Yes."
"Can you spell the street name for me, please."
"Dad?!"
"Help!"
"I'm calling 911."
The final part of this statement is collecting information to set up the
main strategy for Jennifer's interrogation that will take place
ten days later.
They go through Jennifer's past and gather intel to lay the foundation
for what's known as "The How and Why Solution".
Which will be explained in further detail at a later stage.
What I want to do now is... I want to go into your past, okay?
And start talking about things that have been going on with you.
The detective now morphs into a therapist.
And what's fascinating is how Jennifer doesn't once question the
new line of inquisition.
Many argue that it was the first time Jennifer was even asked about
such matters, giving reason for her willingness to open up.
This may have been the first time in her life, she was able to process
her frustrations and vent to someone who appeared to care.
The first topic is her parents and the expectations and pressures she
was under to succeed, which led to her faking her grades and then her
college degree as to not be a disappointment.
How did you feel about that?
How did you feel about having to lie to your parents?
I felt guilty, but every time I tried to bring it up...
there was just so much...
So much expectation...
Do you have any resentment towards them for this?
I chose what I chose.
But in the end, I chose my family.
She just referred to the ultimatum she was given by her father.
The choice to live at home and go back to school or be completely cut
off by her parents and live with her boyfriend.
Information gathering on Jennifer's past goes on for roughly two hours
and 20 minutes.
The detective then ends the exchange by putting her under some pressure.
It's not a direct confrontation but it's by far the most uncomfortable
position she's been in up to this point.
The detective suddenly switches back to the home invasion and how the
intruders were able to gain access without breaking in.
Like you didn't hear... you didn't hear a doorbell.
You didn't hear a door knock. You didn't hear a door kicked in.
You didn't... I was...
I said I was watching TV on the floor? I don't know-how.
Yeah, I know, we went over that back and forth, we don't know-how.
So somehow they got into your house, by getting through your mom, down on
the lower level, right?
Because she's the only one who's down there.
She was the only one down there.
So it's very confusing.
Generally, random events... are not, in most cases, random.
There's a rhyme or reason why they've come to your house.
But from what you've told me inside the house, the only thing that you
hear them saying to you is they're looking for money.
They're not looking for a specific quantity of money?
No.
So you're telling me that you... you had no involvement in what happened?
Meaning not saying how the outcome came, but you had no involvement in
any type of illegal activity that would have drawn you or the
attention of you to have bad people come to your house,
looking for large sums of money.
You're not involved in this any which way?
Because the question obviously stands, Jennifer is --
You're upstairs, and they're downstairs. I know.
Right?
So it's a natural concern... when, why would they leave you alone?
Why would they not do the same to you?
You can't answer that question?
The only thing I can say is he said I cooperated.
But I asked him to take me.
The number one guy... the number one guy said you cooperated?
Okay.
Who's to say this whole thing isn't a lie?
That what you're telling me is a lie?
Because if you are lying, it's the most cold-blooded thing that I've
ever faced in my life.
There is nothing that you've said to me today is a lie?
Now... back to another very difficult question.
But if I don't ask it, I'm going to be... it's an obvious one.
The resentment that you had... that you may have had towards your
parents for the interference in your relationship and your life and
essentially locking you down in your house.
At the end of the day, I love my parents, and I chose to be with them.
And if I wanted to, I could have just left, but I didn't.
I wanted to stay with them and take care of them.
So this wasn't some evil plot that you thought up to.
Oh my god, no.
No interaction, no belief, no you didn't have anything to do with this
thing at all, whatsoever? No.
You don't engage in illegal activity? No.
Because you know that it'll be very easily...
it will be a very easy thing to discredit you on, right?
We're in the process of trying to add credibility to what you tell us.
And that's through the process of asking people and doing whatever.
Through that same process, it will be very easy to find the flaws in
what you've said.
Which again then turns the focus back to you.
Okay, it's a natural programme... I don't...
It's a natural thing that investigators do.
We eliminate people, or we draw our attention to them.
It's a natural thing, it's not brain surgery, okay?
The detective leaves the room for 20 minutes to allow Jennifer to stew in
her own thoughts before they end the statement.
He comes back to add one last bit of psychological pressure that he
carefully disguises as reassurance.
Jennifer will leave terrified but still believe the police are on her
side.
Okay, we're... we're done... essentially.
How you feeling? It's a relief, you really scared me.
Did I? What did I scare you about?
Sit down, sit down and take a load off.
Tell me how... tell me how you're feeling. And how I scared you.
I don't want you walking away from here thinking I'm evil.
I want you walking around from here thinking that... this guy is helping
investigate my mum's murder.
And he's going to turn over every stone possible to make sure that we
catch the people who do that.
That's what I want you feeling.
So I don't want you walking away from here thinking that I'm a...
I scared you, or I'm a bad man.
Sometimes we have to ask very, very difficult questions,
but it's my job.
Okay?
You're our only link.
You're it until your dad regains...
he is back and being able to be spoken to.
Right now, you're our only link to this case.
Her father had bullet fragments lodged in his face that doctors
couldn't remove and a shattered neck bone.
At the time of this interview, the consensus was that if he did regain
consciousness, he would be useless as a witness due to irreversible
brain damage.
So where we may rely on you heavily on, until we can speak to your father.
Okay? So don't be afraid.
If you've told the truth, the last thing you should be afraid of is,
is anything.
If you've told the truth, and you've been truthful, through this whole process...
then you're helping.
You're doing your part, okay?
And don't be afraid of me.
I'm just afraid because, you know, like, I know, everything is just all
pointing negatively right now, and I don't understand why.
I'm just... I feel that like, the way you're you're speaking to me.
It's kind of like... I know, you said that you had to say those things, but it's...
it's here, and I have already said it to the Special Victims
yesterday but there's like, ideas in my head.
Yeah. And I'm afraid to say it out loud.
But... Ideas about speculation of what happened?
Or how it happened?
Unfortunately, at times, some of us have to point the finger...
Seem like we're pointing the finger and it really is just to provoke you
to see what you're going to do.
How you're going to respond, okay?
So it's only a question, and it's been answered, and if you've been truthful,
okay, you have nothing to fear.
Absolutely nothing, okay?
Police kept Jennifer under close observation from this point forward.
A surveillance detail was assigned to track her every movement.
And she was even monitored at her mother's funeral, three days later.
According to reports, she was emotionless the majority of the time.
Only showing what appeared to be feigned grief at certain moments.
She never shed a single tear and kept her eyes to the floor or
completely shut for the entirety of the service.
Jennifer's father had, in fact awoken from his induced coma the day prior
and miraculously seemed to remember everything from the night
of the incident.
He would give an official statement in secret on November 16th,
and multiple parts of his story contradicted what Jennifer had told police.
The most significant detail was that she was never tied up but instead
walking around freely and talking with the intruders as if they were her friends.
He actually spoke with Jennifer over the phone but was informed by
investigators to act amnesic and not to confront her.
Only to ask her if she thought her ex-boyfriend was behind it.
She stated that she was almost certain he wasn't.
The only issue with Hann's statement was that he had suffered minor brain damage
from the gunshot, which could be used by a defence team to refute
his testimony in court or even get it thrown out altogether.
Furthermore, it was essentially his word against Jennifer's and their
turbulent relationship would also work greatly in the defense's favour.
York Regional Police knew they needed a confession for the best
possible chance at securing a conviction.
So they assigned their most experienced investigator to conduct
Jennifer's interrogation.
She was called back into the Markham Police Station on the 22nd of November
at 2:30 pm.
A week and a half after the incident took place.
So just for the record, it is the 22nd of November 2010.
Were at the Five District Station in the town of Markham.
My computer right now says 2:39 in the afternoon, okay.
Just for the record, my name is detective William Gates,
you can just call me Bill through the day.
And what do you like to be called? Jen or Jennifer.
What do you prefer? Jen or Jennifer?
It doesn't matter. Either or?
Okay, so Jen, you're aware that the... audiotape, and everything's on.
It's the same as last time.
Okay, you've been here on two other occasions, I understand.
On the 9th of November, and I believe again on the 11th of November.
Is that correct? Okay.
And do you know why we're here today?
Just to discuss stuff.
Yeah, regarding what?
The...
For what happened at my home. Okay.
And as a result of that home invasion... your father... Hann Pan,
was actually shot, and your mother, Bich Ha Pan was actually killed.
Is that correct? Yes.
Yeah, you'll have to speak up a little bit, just so I can hear ya.
Sorry, yes.
What's unique about this interrogator is how he immediately
adopts a no-nonsense approach yet manages to build rapport and remain
sympathetic at the same time.
You'll see that he has far less patience compared to the previous
investigator yet seems to create a stronger connection with the suspect.
It's a hard thing to explain, but easily observed, as you'll soon find out.
So that's what we're going to discuss here today.
Jennifer, this time around is read her rights to silence rather than
her rights as a witness.
If she knew anything about the law in Canada, she would be wise to the
fact that she is now a suspect.
Fortunately for the investigator, she remains completely naive to the
situation throughout the opening phase of the interrogation,
making her far more susceptible to the strategy he is about to employ.
Okay, just hold on a second.
It's okay, we're having technical difficulties here.
Okay, so that's why they interrupted me. What we're going to do,
is if you don't mind holding tight there, I'm just gonna move my equipment to
the other room.
Okay, and then I'll come over and we'll move over there.
Next door, okay. I'm just not comfortable being on my own...
It's okay, I'm going to be right here, though.
Okay? Okay.
With respect to interrogations, it's common knowledge that the
psychological manipulation begins before a single word is spoken.
The physical layout of the room is designed to accelerate the sense of
discomfort in isolation.
And it's fascinating to observe how each
interrogator has their own unique methods of setting the tone.
Knowing how this interrogation plays out, allows us to realise this
detectives procedure.
The considerable distance between him and the suspect will keep her
relaxed enough to be influenced by phase one, but this same distance
will intensify the pressure once he eventually closes it during phase two.
You'll notice this detective is slow with his first strategy, but swift
with the second.
He takes his time in building trust and establishing rapport.
Yet once this initial connection is secured, the transition to aggression will be
abrupt and ever-increasing from that point forward.
Jennifer takes a seat in the room 15 minutes, since she was first, informed
of her rights.
It's important to note that she is still free to leave
at any time at this point.
She is unknowingly a suspect but not under arrest.
So, just for the record, this room is being videotaped and audiotaped,
just like the other one, okay.
I'm just going to grab my chair from the across the way, okay.
Okay.
The detective goes through Jennifer's history of teaching piano
and her earlier years of high level figure skating, which was cut short
due to injury.
If you didn't get injured. Would you still be doing it?
I would hope so, yes.
That's nice.
And did you... as far as that, did you do, like competition skating or...?
Yes, competitive skating.
And how did you do with that?
I wasn't at the top of the pack... but I was just... in the middle... average.
Yeah, sounds good, though.
But you did actually enjoy it. Yes.
It was more than just going for a competition you enjoyed...
I was... I was petrified of the competition.
Okay... All right.
Do you have any students right now or...? No.
Okay, and why not?
The students I was teaching, they went to high school and just lost interest.
Okay, yeah, too big for piano.
Yeah, I took it in grade school too, but... I think I got, I went to
grade seven in it, I think, like in when I was in grade seven, I stopped
taking it but, I still remember Swans On The Lake, I know how to
play that, and that's about it.
The detective then goes through Jennifer's work history as a server
before touching on her future plans in education.
Jennifer mentioned is that she plans to go by her parents wishes and
pursue a career in health care at which point the primary strategy is initiated,
"The How and Why Solution."
The detective gradually begins to shift the blame away from the
suspect and onto another set of circumstances that prompted the
suspect to commit the crime.
He starts developing a theme that will afford her a psychological
justification in doing it, and this theme will be further established as
the interrogation progresses.
It starts off subtle so that she remains oblivious to the agenda.
Now, if you could pick any job yourself.
Not talking about anybody else. But, if you could pick, for yourself.
What would it be?
I'd wanna be a piano teacher, on... like... when I come home...
But in the daytime, I'd like to have... just a simple... maybe like a lab technician job.
Just... work...
eight... like eight hours a day. And then come home and teach piano.
Okay.
This is an answer the detective was hoping for Jennifer's preferred
career choice is at odds with what her parents wanted.
So he now builds on the concept of the overly controlling parent and
the unfair limitations that causes the child.
He then links this concept with the subject of Jennifer's boyfriend and
how she was kept from seeing him.
Now, eventually, you were discussing Daniel.
What happened with that relationship?
I hid it from my parents at first, because they didn't agree with me having a boyfriend.
Okay.
And... once they found out, they... didn't like the fact that he was of mixed race.
Okay.
And... they told me to stop seeing him.
Okay. And how did that make you feel?
Just...
It... he was... the person who just filled an empty void for me.
So it felt like a part of me was missing.
When you broke up, you felt a part was missing.
Is that what you're saying?
When they first told me to stop seeing him and stop talking to him,
I just... I... felt like a part of me was missing, and I fell into a little bit of depression.
Okay. How did they find out?
One day when my mother came to pick me up, she saw me with him.
He had dropped me off.
Okay, he dropped you off...?
At... Pacific Mall.
and my mother was coming to pick me up at Pacific Mall.
Okay. And somehow, they saw each other, I guess..?
Oh, my mother saw me... hug and kiss him goodbye.
Okay, that gave it away.
What happened next, then?
I tried to bring him home... and my mother at first was like, you know...
bring him home, let us meet him.
When I brought him home...
They didn't... they automatically... didn't like him... for some reason.
Okay.
And that's when they told me to stop seeing him.
Okay.
So you were told to... stop seeing him. So what happened then?
Well, at first, I stopped for a while... but like I said I...
just felt really empty, and I fell into a deep depression and...
I started talking to him again.
Jennifer then goes on to explain in further detail how she carried on
the relationship in secret and how it became more and more of a
struggle hiding it from her parents.
Now... how has Daniel taken it... when your parents said that you couldn't
see him anymore? How did he take that?
He was... he was hurt.
Yeah. Okay.
And... how did you feel?
Also hurt.
Also hurt, okay.
She then goes on to explain that she was living with Daniel at his
parents house for two years while her own parents thought she was
studying at a university.
And his parents were, I guess, more liberal than your parents?
Their parents... His parents... they love... they... they loved me, yeah.
Yeah. Okay.
And they recognised that you loved each other.
Yes.
Jennifer recounts how she bought a fake diploma for $500 to show her
parents and the many other avenues she went down to keep the lie going.
She eventually gets to the day she was found out.
How did you end up back home, I guess?
They called up my friend... who I said I was staying with... in the middle of the night.
And... she was groggy... and forgot...
what day it was, and so she was like, "isn't she home?" and I wasn't home.
Okay. She messed up.
I don't blame her, but...
No, okay.
Jennifer then goes on to explain the ultimatum she was given and the
restrictive measures that were put in place so that she wouldn't be
able to see her boyfriend.
So how's that felt? Being under those guidelines for the last 18 months?
It was okay, like... it wasn't the best feeling in the world, because...
You know, I mostly felt a bit trapped...
Okay.
But... it's what I chose to be, with my family.
Okay.
And, so you made a choice between what?
Living on my own with Daniel and... staying home with my parents.
And did you feel you really had a choice? Or not?
There... was no choice because family always comes first.
Okay, and... where do you get that from?
Where do you get that belief?
My mom.
So, families number one?
Yes.
The detective then brings up Jennifer's earlier assertion of
being depressed and then affiliates it with the restrictive measures she
was living under.
What was the worst the depression got?
I... cut myself.
Okay, and when did that happen?
With just... a knife.
Where did you do... Where did you cut?
On my wrist, and... once people started noticing, I had to hide it other places.
But... never twice in the same spot.
So how many cuts do you have on you?
Now? None.
None? It healed? No.
Okay. And... did you want to kill yourself?
Yes.
Jennifer asserts that she tried to kill herself when she was 19
by overdosing on sleeping tablets.
She also states that her self harm was a distractor from the pain and
frustrations she was going through.
Did you ever feel that they expected too much of you?
How so?
Comparison to other people.
Okay, so who would they compare you to?
Like... classmates... clubmates... company...
Okay, and so some of them have been successful recently?
Okay, and what did they say to you?
Wish you could have been that person.
Okay, so that's pretty hard, right? Hard to take for you.
It's... what I've heard all my life, so... it's nothing.
Okay.
Did you ever feel like... I know you're smart... and they believe
you're very smart... But did you ever feel that you weren't as smart
as what they thought that you were?
Yes.
Okay, I get that feeling... that it's pretty tough to live up to their expectations.
Okay... like, your dad ultimately would like to see you be like a doctor.
Those were pretty high standards for anybody.
Not everybody can be a doctor.
Okay. And... but they may have acted like, you could have done it no problem.
Their expectations were so high that few people will be able to reach
that expectation.
Not just talking about you. I'm talking about anybody.
Yes.
And it started at a young age.
Yes.
The detective further explores the stresses of living with overly
strict parents, and Jennifer explains in further details the way she would cope,
which, for the most part, was lying about her grades and living a
double life with her boyfriend.
How did it feel having to lie to them for all those years?
It was really hard.
Really, really hard. Like, I wanted to tell them, but... they just... They
They always looked down in disappointment...
Okay.
I'm sure there were days when you actually... planned that this was the day
I'm going to tell them and then... Yup.
You just wasn't able.
The opening strategy of the How and Why Solution has now been executed.
A connection has been attained and the desired narrative established.
The next phase of the interrogation is about to commence, which is first
set up by a two-step strategy.
Step one is to induce fatigue. Step two is to induce fear.
Now, when's the last time you spoke to your dad?
The morning just to... see if my brother had made it into school okay.
Okay.
And what have you and your father discussed about this case?
He just asked me if... Daniel was behind it.
Okay.
And, I just told him I don't know 100%, but I don't think he did.
Okay. Why would he ask that?
Because... he believes that... we still talk...
and that he would go to any lengths to be with me.
Okay, and what do you think about that?
I know that he's moved on, so I don't think he would...
go to these lengths to be with me when he's already moved on.
Okay.
The detective has Jennifer go through the entire incident once more,
but unlike the first investigator offers no reassurance
nor consolation.
Jennifer starts fake crying again, yet this time is given no tissues to
wipe away her non-existent tears.
Now, do you think there's any reason why they tied you up and didn't tie
your parents up?
I don't know...
Does that seem odd to you?
Why does it seem odd?
Because I was away... upstairs, seperated from them the whole time.
And, does it make sense that they would leave a witness behind?
If they were going to kill somebody? Does that make sense?
I guess, I...
Just thinking about it... would it make sense, for somebody that was
going to kill somebody to leave a witness behind that could describe them?
Does that make common sense for killers?
I guess not.
What do you think?
No.
Do you think that was a mistake they made then?
I don't know, they kept saying that they were running out of time,
And it's just...
Doesn't take a long time to kill someone, though, does it?
I know... I don't know.
Jennifer's dramatics intensify as the discussion of the home invasion continues.
She's trying to give off the nonverbal cue that she wants to move
past the incident.
The detective doesn't respond but continues to go
over the different stages of the night in more detail.
He jumps from the beginning, to the end, to the middle, back to the end
and then back to the beginning again.
None of this is for the purpose of information gathering,
he is inducing mental fatigue as to diminish Jennifer's critical thinking.
This is often done before a direct confrontation, as it can diminish
the suspects ability to consider the long-term consequences of a decision.
Jennifer will get stressed and tired, not because she is
traumatised by the event being recited, but because it's exhausting
keeping up such an act when it's not genuine.
And this performance eventually starts to dwindle and becomes
gradually less convincing.
How did the conversation end with that?
I heard my father... my mother calling for my father.
Okay.
And then what?
Do we have to go through this again?!
Okay. When you went to bed was your mom home yet?
She had just gotten home, and I went down, and I told Ed, "I'll be right back",
And I... I went down, I said "Hi" to her, and then I went
back up to my room.
Okay, were you injured at all during the whole process?
A little, but not really. No.
Okay. Not really... anything...?
No. No, okay.
Step two of the confrontation setup will now commence.
The detective employs what is known as "The Futility Technique".
He will tell Jennifer that he has an abundance of resources at his
disposal and even fabricate much of what he asserts.
He's indirectly telling the suspect it is useless to resist due to the
overwhelming evidence against her.
Now, the reason... why I'm here today, okay, is... that I'm an expert, okay,
in what we call truth verification.
I've talked to 1000s of people. Okay?
And I basically know when somebody
is not being straightforward with me, okay.
I can tell by the language they use... how they answer the questions...
their body language... how they treat the question... that something's wrong here.
Okay, this doesn't make sense.
The detective then gives Jennifer an eight minute narrative on police
tactics and forensic technology, some of which is embellished, but
for the most part, true.
He then asserts that police are able to use infrared satellite imagery to
see the occupants inside a household.
This is entirely false.
And basically, if people are moving around in a house, it's like an x-ray, okay.
And basically, we're able to tell, you know, are those movements,
are those actions?
Is that number of people consistent with the story that we've been told?
Are the people in the positions that the witnesses are telling us they were in?
Or are they different? Okay?
And if they're different, why are they different?
Is what our question becomes, right?
And so at the end of the day, okay, there's so many resources available to me...
that at the end of the day, I'm going to know if a person's
telling me the truth, or not.
The detective is now about to initiate the confrontation,
but first brings the entire setup full circle by re-establishing the notions
of reasoning and rationale.
The suspect is fatigued and scared, but still needs to feel the
detective is on her side.
Now, I can tell you that nothing surprises me in this job, okay.
I am well aware that anybody on this Earth is capable of making a mistake, okay.
I don't care who they are. I don't care if they're a priest,
I don't care if they're a school teacher. I don't care what the situation is.
Given a certain set of circumstances, everyone has the
capability, Jennifer, of making a mistake.
Doing the wrong thing, okay.
The key, though, when I talk to people is, when they've made a mistake,
okay, that's one thing, right?
The key is to not keep making the same mistake...
And to get that information out and get it off your chest.
Okay, do you understand what I'm saying?
So, at the end of the day, from this case, and I can tell you, I've spent...
literally, a week on this case, going over information, after information.
Accessing all the sources, speaking to every other expert on the case.
And at this point, Jennifer, I know that you've not been truthful with the police.
Okay?
You've not told us everything that you know, purposely.
You've spent a considerable amount of time, in the last seven years,
telling half truths.
And I can understand why, okay... you've had a tough life.
What's happened to you... to me, equates to abuse.
And... all the stresses that you've had and forced to lie,
I can understand why you did it. Okay.
Well, you're in another situation here where you're under another
tremendous amount of stress.
And it doesn't feel good inside, does it?
No. It breaks down the person that you are.
Because at the end of the day, you're a good person, I know that,
you've got a good heart.
In this case, though, you've made mistakes.
Okay. And you're involved in this.
I know that. Okay, there's no question about it.
The only question right now is... are you going to keep making mistakes?
Are you going to go on the route that you've gone on over the years
and try to pretend that things happened, that never happened?
Okay, are you going to not face reality here?
We know that you're involved. We've done our homework, okay.
We have to resolve that now here today.
I need to know from you, what really happened.
And I know why this has happened.
You have spent your whole life trying to live up to expectations
that you can't make, okay?
And that's stressed the hell out of you.
You're a 24-year-old woman being treated like a 15-year-old.
Okay.
What... You've never done anything that terrible in your life,
but you're... being treated like you have.
You're not being treated like the adult that you are, yes, you made
some mistakes, big deal.
You're not the first person that has gone out and not told their parents
that they're dating a guy, because, in your culture, they don't accept it.
I understand that.
I've talked to people in here that have kept that secret for their
whole life, from their parents.
Okay, so that's not abnormal, but that puts a lot of stress on you.
Right?
That's not easy for you, is it?
No. Now, what we're going to get down to here today, Jen,
is what really happened.
You need to tell me what went on.
Because, you know ,who was in that house that night.
I don't know.
You do Jen, there's no question about that, okay.
While remaining empathetic and understanding the detective still
needs to keep Jennifer's confidence low.
He watches for denials and stops them immediately.
Letting the suspect deny her guilt will only increase confidence and morale.
This needs to be stripped away as much as possible, as early as possible.
There's no question about it, okay?
The focus has kept from the magnitude of the crime and
concentrated on the justifications of why someone would commit it.
Yes, their intentions might have been good but they're not realistic.
They're not, Jen, were they?
Jen?
Their expectations weren't realistic were they?
No. You couldn't live up to them, could you?
You tried to.
Right? Am I right?
Yep.
And finally, you had to bite back, right?
You had no other choice. You felt like you had no other options.
You thought of everything else including killing yourself.
This is Canada.
We're in the 21st century here.
You cannot take everything out of a person.
You can have expectations for your kids, but you can't expect them to
do everything the way you want.
It doesn't feel good to have secrets does it?
No.
You have to let me know what happened here, okay?
I said how it happened.
Okay, but you were involved, right?
That's the part we need.
Okay, we need to hear that from you because we know you were.
The detective appears to be getting nowhere, so he now lowers the gauge of admission.
A confession to a lesser offence is far easier to attain, but once it is attained,
can be used to build on the more damnatory elements of the case.
You'll also notice that he uses broad terms that infer guilt,
yet don't directly accuse Jennifer of murder.
You knew before that night that that this was going to happen.
I'm gonna make that easy on you. That's a true statement, right?
You knew before that night that they were coming, right?
Jen, it's not worth it anymore.
It's hurting you.
What happens to me?
She seems to be on the cusp of giving some form of admission,
yet wants reassurance as to what it means for her own sake.
She asks this question nine times throughout this interrogation.
It's one of the few things investigators can't actually lie about,
as it's been used countless times in the past to get a case
thrown out under misdirection.
They can avoid the question, yet they can't afford any false promises with
respect to sentencing.
I need know the details. I can't even say.
But I can tell you one thing, is that we already know, so you can't change that.
I wanted it to stop.
I know you did.
But it got too far ahead of you, right?
You didn't see... you didn't think this far ahead, did you?
But once they started once, they came in, you couldn't stop it... could you?
Could you?
Jen?
I wanted it to stop.
I know... why didn't they stop for you?
I don't know who they were.
But you were part of the planning, right?
You have to tell me that part, and then we're gonna work through it together.
Do you hear what I'm saying?
You didn't want this... you wanted to stop it... you have to prove
that to me now.
Because at the end of the day, we have to stop this from happening to someone else.
Right?
What happens to me?
Jen, we're going to have to deal with it one step at a time, okay?
I'm going, to be honest with you.
I need to know what you did.
And then, you and I are going to work through this together.
Because the most important part is of this whole thing is, that we do
the right thing for your mom.
Right?
I am hearing her voice right now.
I'm working for your mom, that's my job.
And I have to get to the bottom of this for your mom.
Appealing to compassion isn't necessarily uncommon when the crime
is first-degree murder, yet it can send a mixed message when a
justification for the crime was a focus point early on.
The detective takes his chance with it, which at first appears to work,
Jennifer initially responds in a poignant manner, but you'll soon
come to notice that her empathy, alongside her concern, is solely
focused on herself.
But we got to start...
But what happens to me?
Well, I don't know at this point.
Okay, because I don't know what you're going to tell me other than
that you were involved, but I need to hear it.
What this all was, was a last-ditch effort to live your own life.
To be your own person. To make your own decisions.
Look at all your friends.
Look at all the people around you, does anyone else have a curfew for
nine o'clock at 24 years of age?
You had no choice here, Jen, I know that.
And anybody else in your situation would have done the exact same thing.
The only thing different is, I would say that they had done it a lot earlier.
They would have looked for a way in.
When did you first start planning?
When was the final straw?
What was the final straw?
Because that's what this is all about.
Do you want to be a good person here?
Yes.
Jennifer knows exactly what questions to answer and what ones to ignore.
Anytime a question is non incriminating, she gives a response.
Yet, when they are incriminating, she remains silent.
She is no doubt feeling the pressure, but still very aware of
the situation and the potential ramifications of her words.
Hey... and you know, when a good person makes a mistake,
they have to face that mistake, right?
Right?
What happens to me?
What do you think should happen? I don't know.
You're going to prove to people that you know what the right thing to do is,
that's what is gonna happen.
That's what your mom wants, right now, she's watching us here.
She's wondering, is Jen gonna make the right decision here?
Is Jen, after all of this, is going to come out on top doing the right thing?
I'm here for you, Jen.
I'm here for your mom.
But what happens to me?
Well, you have to tell... it's one of those situations, you don't want...
We know that what you did, okay.
But you have to be able to explain to me, what happened, okay.
I can't tell you what's exactly going to happen to you.
You just have to be brave here.
You have to be brave.
Three hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds, the exact amount of time it took
for Jennifer to display genuine emotion.
The investigator would later testify, this was the first moment
the suspect was being authentic.
He allows her to fixate on whatever thought brought this on and remains
completely silent for just under two minutes.
You're sorry, aren't you?
Jen... it's okay.
They were supposed to kill me...
They were supposed to take you?
No, to kill me.
Why?
Don't wanna live anymore.
Okay.
So they were supposed to take the whole family out?
No, just me.
What went wrong?
I don't know.
The detective now has one foot in the door.
It's not an outright confession, but Jennifer has now admitted to
planning the home invasion all along.
And, although she asserts that she was the intended target while her
parents were meant to be spared, the information she has now given is
enough to place her under arrest.
Jennifer is no longer going home after this interview.
The detective now presses for more information on the amended storyline.
It's essentially step one, of day one, all over again.
But from a more powerful position.
He knows she is still lying, and now locks her into as many lies as
possible within the new narrative.
What happened?
I don't know.
Why did it change?
I don't know.
Okay, what do you know? How come it was supposed to be you?
Cause I didn't wanna be here anymore.
Why not?
Cause I looked like a disappointment.
Okay, you made mistakes, but nothing that couldn't be corrected.
Why was it supposed to be you?
I wanted everyone to be free from me.
Why did it happen this way?
I don't know.
I just wanted everyone to be free from me.
Cause I was a disappointment in everything.
Okay, but why did it have to happen this way?
Cause when I tried suicide, I failed.
What did you want done?
To kill me.
How?
Didn't matter... just to kill me.
Okay, so who did you get to do this then?
I don't know who he is. I just know his number.
Okay, and what's his number?
I don't memorize it.
She skirts around the question surrounding her accomplices and
gives multiple fake names.
She stated that she got a number of the supposed hitman from an
acquaintance named Rick and that she took everything from there over the phone.
It becomes apparent she doesn't want to give up or even mention her boyfriend.
So, for the time being, the detective allows her to recount her amended
narrative and the manner she pleases.
She gets to the moment she instructed the hitman over the phone
about her planned suicide.
I told him that I wanted to be killed.
And did he think that was something crazy?
He said, "Are you sure that's what you want?" And I said, "Yes."
Because I don't think many people get that request.
Do you?
No, but that's what I wanted. And he asked me over and over,
just to make sure, I was sure. And I said I was sure.
Okay, so what did you ask them to do, then?
To come take me out and then leave.
Okay, why didn't they do it when you were...
When your parents weren't there, then?
Cause... I'm never alone... it was in the night time.
Okay.
So that meeting you had with Rick, you told him what you wanted?
No... I just said that I wanted... If he knew anybody who can take care...
of something that I needed.
Just, I wanted to be killed.
And he said, what?
"Here's the number."
Did he have the number with him that day? Yes.
Okay, what did he say he would do?
He was just like, "let me take care of it".
"Let me do me."
Your specific request to him was, was what?
To come in and make sure you kill me.
So he does come into the house.
And you're the obvious, only young girl there, right? Yes.
Okay.
When he came to her... your room.
Yeah?
What discussions did you have with the guy that came into your room?
The real discussions you had, not what you told us?
Just... "Where was the money".
And I showed him where the money was.
Okay.
but he obviously said 'I'm here to do what you asked.'
He never said anything like that.
What did he say?
He was just like, "hands behind your back".
Did he discuss ways with you, how he would do it? No.
Did you request any way for him to do it?
Just to make sure that no one else was around.
Okay, why didn't they do it the way you wanted?
I don't know, I asked them.
I asked them to take me with my mom when they took them away.
It doesn't seem to make sense.
I know. It doesn't make sense to me.
Because I was supposed to be.
Okay, can you sit up for a minute, Jen?
Okay, look at me.
The detective wants an outright confession.
And the second direct confrontation is about to commence.
Only this time, it will be a lot more aggressive, as he doesn't have
to worry as much about the suspect locking up or requesting counsel.
She is under arrest and going to jail after this interrogation, no matter what.
Look at me. Okay.
What I do believe... Is that you went to somebody.
And I do believe that night you paid them the $2,000.
But what's not true is it was never for you. Yes, it was.
Okay, Jen, no.
Yes. Okay, you went to this person...
and you asked them to do a job.
And the job was for your parents.
You asked them... to do this job on your parents, Jen.
Okay, let's be truthful.
Okay, nobody's going to come in there and get the wrong people.
If you wanted to kill yourself, Jen, you're not going to pay somebody
$2,000 to do it.
I couldn't do it myself, though. Okay.
But there's other ways, okay?
And if that was gonna happen... they could have taken you outside...
and done it anywhere, it wouldn't matter would it?
If you really wanted to die, all they would have had to do is pull up
beside you in a car and shoot you.
You made a specific request.
And the job was for your mom and dad.
Okay, nobody's going come in there and do the wrong job.
Okay? Nobody's going to do that.
They came, you paid.
And they did what they were supposed to do.
And the plan was for your parents.
It was for me. Okay, Jen.
You have to be honest with... This is the only thing that's in contention here.
Okay, you made the mistake, okay. Everybody understands.
Everybody in this Police Department feels sorry for you.
I can tell you that right now.
Okay, because they've seen what you're going through.
It's so obvious, okay?
That all this tension they put at you... basically just like a volcano.
All right?
And at one point, it was just too much and erupted, okay, and you made
a bad decision.
Okay.
And once you hired this guy, there was no turning back.
Now, in the original story, you said that you hid your cell phone, okay.
If it was for you, you wouldn't have hid your cell phone.
That would have never happened.
So it creates conflict...
It's not hidden, it's just... I...I put it there, naturally. It's what I naturally do.
But you said on... tape that you hid it there and that they didn't know about it.
That's your language, not mine, Jen.
All they wanted was so much success out of you, they were not even
looking at you as a person.
They were looking for a success story...
instead of just saying,
whatever Jen wants is what's good for us.
Whatever she's happy with, as long as she's happy in her life,
I'm happy with it.
If she wants to work at East Side Mario's for the rest of her life...
that's fine.
If she wants to be a piano teacher, that's great.
If she wants to continue figure skating, that's wonderful.
Why would somebody... shoot someone they didn't have to shoot?
I don't know. I can't figure that out.
And actually not shoot the person they're supposed to shoot?
I don't know, that's what I'm trying to figure out.
Okay, why didn't you tell us this that night then?
Because I was scared.
Scared of what? Telling the truth?
Yes... that I wanted to die.
Okay, listen, if you wanted to die, you would tell us everything because
it wouldn't matter.
Jen...
If you really wanted to die, you would tell us everything because it
doesn't really matter, right?
It does matter because the wrong person got hurt.
And my dad is suffering.
I appreciate that's what happened in the end, but that's what was
supposed to happen.
Okay.
The good thing about this is your dad did live.
And that went against the plan.
If you could make this decision over, you would change it.
Okay.
You would change it.
Right?
Of course.
If I knew he was going to get hurt, of course, I wouldn't...
Jen, you knew who was going to get hurt, that's the whole issue here.
Okay, that's the whole issue here.
You give them the plan for your parents, right?
That's all I need to hear. No.
Jen, you did.
No... and this is not gonna go anywhere, because...
I wanted them to kill me.
Tell me what happened.
I told you what happened...
Okay... all of it.
I did. Okay.
All you have to do here is tell me right now...
is 'Bill, yes, I made a mistake.'
Bill, yes, I made a mistake.
'This plan was for my parents.'
The detective gets no further admission from this point forward.
So he leaves Jennifer alone for three minutes to play with her hair
before he comes back and charges her with first degree murder.
Okay.
I need you to listen close to me, okay. Jen?
At this point in the investigation, okay... I'm going to be arresting you for murder.
Okay?
Also attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
Do you understand that?
Just have to tell me that you understand those charges?
Just say yes or no?
Yes. Yes, okay.
So what we're gonna do right now is, do you have your own lawyer?
No...
No? Okay.
Do you have a lawyer you would like to speak to, that you know of?
No.
Okay.
Would you like to speak to duty counsel?
I just wanna talk to someone who can help me... understand....
Okay, so who would that be?
I don't know.
So do you have a lawyer?
You said that you were on my side?
Okay, I am on your side, Jen.
What would you like to do?
I don't have... I don't have any idea what to do.
Do you want me to call duty counsel for you?
Okay.
Okay? Or, is there any other lawyer that you would like?
I don't know of any...
Okay, so at this point, you wish to speak to duty counsel then?
Sure. Okay.
So what I'm gonna have to get you to do is actually empty all your
pockets on the table here.
I'm going to make sure that they are making a call to duty counsel,
and we'll line that up, and you can speak to the duty counsel in private, okay?
We've made a call to duty counsel, we're just waiting for them to call back, okay?
Do you need a drink of water or anything? Do you have to leave?
What's that? Do you have to leave?
I do have to go and speak to these officers.
But I'll come back and speak to you, okay?
But... we've got to take care of the lawyers, okay?
That's the priority here now, okay?
The next time Jennifer would see this detective would be when he
testified at her trial.
It began on the 14th of March 2014, and Jennifer pled not guilty to all charges.
Her interrogation tape was one of the more damning pieces of evidence
put forward by the prosecution.
Yet the most damning were the 116 text messages between her and her
boyfriend in the six hours leading up to the murder.
They thought using burner phones to communicate would cover their tracks.
Yet, forensics were able to uncover the entire discussion,
just one month after the incident.
They spoke in detail about how the crime would be carried out,
and it was enough to convict them both, as well as each of the intruders who
were linked to the crime via DNA evidence and witness testimony.
They were all found guilty of first-degree murder and given a life sentence
without the possibility of parole for 25 years.
Jennifer Pan is now 34 years of age.
She is currently serving her sentence at the
Grand Valley Institution for Women in Kitchener, Ontario.
She will be first eligible for parole in November of 2035.
What about your dad?
He drives a Mercedes, and he loves that baby.
Is that right?